tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post5876583082927649194..comments2024-02-18T01:56:38.508-06:00Comments on M.D.O.D.: The Bill of Rights911DOChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06466669111561150174noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-47035276605934907752008-05-06T16:24:00.000-05:002008-05-06T16:24:00.000-05:00amy, thanks.amy, <BR/>thanks.911DOChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466669111561150174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-55637200925911619852008-05-05T18:27:00.000-05:002008-05-05T18:27:00.000-05:00Amy, I haven't lost a child, but I was just writ...Amy,<BR/> I haven't lost a child, but I was just writing in my blog about something that happened 29 yrs. ago (the disappearance/death of my brother and Dad), and I was just knocked out with grief. The pain doesn't all happen at once (though it feels that way), or it would kill us. I think it's normal to 1) talk to strangers about it 2) feel overwhelmed by grief years later. You never get over it or recover from it, you just get more functional as time passes. Take care, and I'd be happy to talk to you too.Devorrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14542045173559671539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-842125225700825202008-05-05T17:52:00.000-05:002008-05-05T17:52:00.000-05:00Martygrn, 911Doc,Thank you.I understand what happe...Martygrn, 911Doc,<BR/><BR/>Thank you.<BR/><BR/>I understand what happened, it was explained to me and I did some research on my own when it was all taking place. <BR/>It will be 3 years in August that he died and after the initial shock, I thought I was doing OK, considering... Then I have been recently hit by a tidal wave of grief, which I even did not see coming.<BR/>I have no need for further explanation (thanks for offering), partly because I think I know, partly because it really does not matter anymore, but I also understand your professional interest, so I promise if I ever can get over reliving this as if it was happening all over again, I will contact you to give you information.<BR/>I still cannot believe I blurted this on a blog of total strangers, a sign that maybe finally I am losing my sanity. It sure feels that way. <BR/>Again, thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-70610816946263287502008-05-04T12:37:00.000-05:002008-05-04T12:37:00.000-05:00Dr. Cat, I read that too, that the rate of anal ...Dr. Cat,<BR/> I read that too, that the rate of anal cancer is going up because of a an apparent change in people's sexual practices. I wonder what the public service announcement will look like?<BR/> And I agree with your comment.Devorrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14542045173559671539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-72563271325737387522008-05-04T08:46:00.000-05:002008-05-04T08:46:00.000-05:00I think the primary care doc as gatekeeper can wor...I think the primary care doc as gatekeeper can work really well in some instances. When my idiot son fell off a cliff, his pediatrician was invaluable to me as an advisor and a friend: We trust him and his opinion, and I was very grateful that I didn't have to pick and communicate with the many specialists and surgeons that we ended up seeing. We also communicated well, and he listened to my concerns and preferences. Same with my internist. I love you guys.Devorrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14542045173559671539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-33961016125842690832008-05-04T00:28:00.000-05:002008-05-04T00:28:00.000-05:00This seems a little out of place now with where th...This seems a little out of place now with where the conversation via comments has gone, but I want to point one thing out. Yes, a very large group of people like to spout off about our life expectancy numbers. But consider this: the good ole US of A is tops in the world in violent crime, drunk driving, suicide, aggressive driving and reckless driving; all things that, either directly or indirectly, impact our life expectancy numbers. When a 17 year old "gang-banger" is murdered on the street, this impacts our LE as much as a 17 year old dying from leukemia. Not really a fair comparison when thought about from that perspective. Just a point to consider: when looking at statistics, ALWAYS make sure to look at the numbers used to make those stats and how they are calculated. This simple research can change what the stats are actually saying. So much so, that if you remove deaths caused by violent crime, drunk driving and suicide from the life expectancy numbers, the US actually becomes #1 in the world!! I don't remember the numbers, but I did find at one time all the percentages for all the countries broken down by cause of death. When this is taken in to account, I don't see how you can possibly say the healthcare system is in any way to blame.<BR/><BR/>On a more serious, non-political note, my heart goes out to you Amy on the loss of your child. By profession, I am a Pediatric ICU nurse, so I work with parents who have lost or are in fear of losing their child on a daily basis. I too am very interested in the specifics of your situation when you are feeling up to sharing them. I will make the same offer as 911doc did for you to email me privately. I am not an MD, but I work everyday with pediatric physicians of every specialty and have seen and experienced quite a bit, so I have more pediatric experience, admittedly without the education 911 has. Perhaps between the two of us, along with all of the other great people here, we can help you come to a better understanding of what happened which can help ease some of the pain. Not pushing here, just letting you know I am here for you if you'd like.Martygrnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11068819802192266392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-83889103475933600132008-05-03T22:53:00.000-05:002008-05-03T22:53:00.000-05:00amy, my apologies, my long-winded comment was bein...amy, <BR/><BR/>my apologies, my long-winded comment was being typed as you posted your succinct one.<BR/><BR/>my offer of offline opinion still stands. <BR/><BR/>your comment has me really thinking and i am very interested but do respect the fact that it is hard for you so will just hope you can tell us a bit more when you are ready. <BR/><BR/>have you talked to an attorney or had a physician expert review the case? i know that doesn't change anything but now i am wondering about honest-to-goodness malpractice.<BR/><BR/>on the subject of the whole 'primary care gatekeeper' concept so touted as the panacea by the clintons in 'hillary care part 1', i have lots to say. it is enough for a few posts so i will just scratch the surface here.<BR/><BR/>suffice it to say that i think the concept of the primary care gatekeeper was fundamentally flawed and even ridiculous. it betrayed a complete lack of knowledge about medicine, how doctors practice, and how excellence and near perfection is acheived. <BR/><BR/>i am going to sleep and hope to hear more from you soon. <BR/><BR/>God bless.911DOChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466669111561150174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-91502531540653526382008-05-03T22:34:00.000-05:002008-05-03T22:34:00.000-05:00dear amy,we are not forcing you to do anything. pl...dear amy,<BR/><BR/>we are not forcing you to do anything. please understand this. i am not asking you these questions to dredge up pain for you. i am asking these questions because <STRONG><EM>you</EM></STRONG> have asked some questions and made some assumptions that are commonly made about health care in the united states and well, it's my life.<BR/><BR/>we are mostly of one mind here about the things that are wrong and the things that are right in health care. i am NOT going to let our blog be used by others (not <EM>you, </EM>but we do have like, thirty readers, and one of them need only push a button to send this right into hillary's meaty, cold, little hand<EM>)</EM> to push their political agenda<EM>.</EM> it's getting to be election season, and while i have no illusions about this blog having ANY influence or power, it could provide a convenient sound bite for obama or hillary if the 'blogging doctors at MDOD' agree with you that our system is so messed up that children die needlessly.<BR/><BR/>secondly, and <STRONG><EM>kindly</EM></STRONG>, i DO, actually, have an <EM>idea</EM> about how painful this is for you. i have to tell parents when their children have died in the ER, i have to tell brothers, sisters, moms and dads. i see the pain, i hear the screams, i am the bearer of the worst news one can hear so i have an idea. it is a mistake to disqualify those who have not suffered your particular tragedy from having an opinion that might be worth listening to. it sets you up for being completely alone, or, it sets you up for getting caught up with others who <EM>have suffered</EM> your loss and have been unable to let go. i have no idea if i am describing you, amy, but it is possible to get stuck in your recovery in a sea of black 'what ifs?'.<BR/><BR/>also, let me suggest this to you. while we are all loudmouth, sophomoric clowns here, we are at least clowns who happen to be very good doctors. i am not saying this to toot my horn, as i have done my best to remain anonymous. i am saying it to let you know, just like janemarie did in her comment above, that if there is stuff that happened with your child that you wonder about. if you are not sure if your child received the right treatments in a timely fashion, if you are wondering anything like that, then we can offer you very educated and expert opinion.<BR/><BR/>most of us here are ER docs but <EM>etotheipi</EM> is a pathologist. his bailywick is to know everything about every human disease (except how to fix it), and he knows the statistics and likelihoods and prognoses as well. he knows it cold.<BR/><BR/>how 'bout this. even though you are as anonymous as one can be in a comment section and you should have no fear about that; if it would be easier for you then email me at the address on the top right of the blog. i promise to keep whatever you send me between us AND i promise that if what you tell me makes me change my mind about what is wrong with our system and how to fix it (or if we really aren't as good as we think), then you will have a very public and humble apology from me right here.<BR/><BR/>finally, let me tell you the first thing i tell family members when one of their loved one's has died. i tell them that it was not their fault. outside of murder it really was not their fault. it's not your fault amy. if you favor me or this audience with more of the story i am betting that whatever accident or disease took your child from you was aggressively and expertly treated and that there was nothing more that could be done <EM>anywhere on this planet</EM>. it's not your fault.911DOChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466669111561150174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-68903054570468422012008-05-03T22:16:00.000-05:002008-05-03T22:16:00.000-05:00janemariemd,On the one hand, I am convinced that w...janemariemd,<BR/><BR/>On the one hand, I am convinced that we lost precious time when we decided to go through our health insurance to change doctors and we had to fight and argue to get nowhere at first. Hindsight tells us we should just have seen another doctor as self pay and not gone through the "high school dropouts." (We had to deal at first with a family doctor who just knew this had to be of no importance and I was just a neurotic mother.)<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, it really does not matter anymore. No one can turn back time. <BR/> <BR/>When we finally accessed good care, cameras came out of the woodwork, curiosity drew a university professor and that kind of interest was not a good sign. Usually when caught on time, even though very serious, it is fatal only at a very low percentage.<BR/>Things just fell into place to give us the worst possible outcome.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-58139324177400753852008-05-03T18:46:00.000-05:002008-05-03T18:46:00.000-05:00Hey Amy, If you'd like to stick to some generaliti...Hey Amy, <BR/><BR/>If you'd like to stick to some generalities, how about some insights or things you wished your child's doctors knew or did? Any behaviors that weren't exactly empathic or informative?<BR/><BR/>There are at least half a dozen plus docs reading this blog (me,and the writers LOL) but more likely dozens more. We aren't perfect, and I know I often don't live up to my ideals as far as being a compassionate and capable physician. One day when I was on call and speaking on the phone to a patient who paged me, after I hung up my husband said, "You weren't very nice to that person". And you know, he was right! So I'm trying to be kinder on the phone to patients who page the on-call doc and get me calling them back. (This was also amazing as my husband isn't alway so diplomatic in his 'feedback' to me!!)janemariemdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04456131748909653894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-68336180542126786002008-05-03T12:22:00.000-05:002008-05-03T12:22:00.000-05:00You are forcing me to break my rule again...I have...You are forcing me to break my rule again...<BR/>I have to leave but just a quick comment I need to address immediately, because maybe I gave out the wrong impression: no hospital refused treatment based on $$. <BR/>You have no idea (I think) how painful it is for me to stir all this up, especially at this time of year, but maybe later I'll try to give more details.<BR/><BR/>And I don't have a profile because it did not work when I first tried, not because I want to be under the radar. I just gave up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-62356151863858408072008-05-03T11:27:00.000-05:002008-05-03T11:27:00.000-05:00amy, i agree with you sweetheart, but you misquote...amy, <BR/>i agree with you sweetheart, but you misquote me. i said that the worst place to be in our counrty's current mess is someone with a middle income and a job. you are right, you are funding helath care for all. the reason you are, is EMTALA, and the unfunded mandate to take care of all comers regardless of their ability to pay. <BR/><BR/>i also said that we all 'have to do something', not that no one needs to do anything. <BR/><BR/>also, my question stands though it sounds like you should not answer. what happened to your child that you were unable to access care?? what happened to your child that you were not appropriately treated and diagnosed? what cost was prohibitive? what hospital refused to treat based on $$? <BR/><BR/>your posts are not linked to any profile, you are posting anonymously with the name 'amy', please rest assured that none of us know who you are. in this context please do try to answer because i am very interested at the specifics of how your child suffered due to lack of access to care. <BR/><BR/>best.911DOChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466669111561150174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-53267032874294807602008-05-03T10:01:00.000-05:002008-05-03T10:01:00.000-05:00Wow... I guess I brought this upon myself. I broke...Wow... I guess I brought this upon myself. I broke my own rule of never sharing that information with strangers.<BR/>It was late, Mother's Day is approaching and I am a mess, I let my guard down.<BR/><BR/>As I am emptying this box of Klenexes, here is my response.<BR/><BR/>I do not criticize the level of helthcare in the US. It is of the very highest level and rightfully so, it is also expensive. People with the highest incomes have access to the best of healthcare, housing, lifestyle. Fair enough.<BR/><BR/>Where my claws come out is when the rest of us are inequally treated when it comes to the access of care.<BR/>The lady you mention gets excellent care for free. With my (and your) money.<BR/>I work, I pay taxes, I take care of myself, I work out, yet if I were to got to Emergency for a car accident, for instance, my co-pay would be 10% of the bill. A small fortune, I am sure, depending upon what shape I am in.<BR/>Then if I needed rehab or some expensive long term care, my husband would have to talk to and fight with the same insurance people Lofty argues with, so my care would be covered, even if at a ridiculously low rate.<BR/><BR/>You say:<BR/>"i believe you make a mistake if you think, as i think you do, that 'someone has to do something'."<BR/>You bet I do. <BR/><BR/>I will end this with janemariemd comment:<BR/><BR/>"Many people in this country get first-rate care--it does depend on where you live, and how much moxie you have in working "the system";<BR/><BR/>Many others, poor and well-off alike, don't get great care;"<BR/><BR/>I am sorry I threw you a curve ball with my comment about my son. As I mentioned at the beginning of this, I should never have talked about it in the first place. There are plenty of examples of unfairness in the way healthcare is available. That was not fair on my part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-23505095121243842452008-05-03T08:49:00.000-05:002008-05-03T08:49:00.000-05:00Very well-written, 911.Very well-written, 911.Devorrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14542045173559671539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-65411851079297108392008-05-03T02:13:00.000-05:002008-05-03T02:13:00.000-05:00dear amy,you mistake our purpose. sure, we will ba...dear amy,<BR/><BR/>you mistake our purpose. sure, we will bash folks here, but we also bash each other. if you are telling the truth and you lost a child two years ago then i am terribly sorry. i really am. the absolute worst part of my job is telling parent's that their child died. usually i do this in the setting of trauma, but i do it too frequently with SIDS, and, unfortunately for all involved, with common illnesses with a delayed presentations.<BR/><BR/>'my child died' is an argument stopper. in fact, it bothers me so much that i have to ask what happened?<BR/><BR/>being a part of the 'system' that you believe failed you, and seeing death about once or twice a week (sometimes more) i am baffled as to what could have happened that was missed or maltreated. being a husband and a father i will tell you without hesitation that if any of my family were to be ill or injured that there is no place in the world i would rather they be treated than right here. cold comfort for you i understand, but i know medicine, and i'm not flying my sick child to france or canada for treatment. the best in the world is just down the street and that is so in all fifty states.<BR/><BR/>i'll even extend that and say that and say that for children of any socioeconomic background with any illness or injury that this country is the best place for them to be diagnosed and treated. everyone really does have unlimited access to care in this country. it is, in fact, why we are in a mess.<BR/><BR/>for instance, i took care of a woman the other day that all of us know. she has many clones all over the country. she, through a series of bad circumstances, poor education, and bad choices, has real disease and fake disease. she has no money and no insurance. she has diabetes and smokes and drinks. she has headaches and hypertension. her kidneys are failing and she will soon need dialysis. she takes the ambulance in to our ER about once a week. her bills are now in the millions of dollars. i have paid for her care, and, if you pay taxes, so have you. but she has not, nor will she.<BR/><BR/>i heartily agree with you that folks in the lower to middle income brackets are in the worst place to be in terms of insurance. but this is because of my patient above and <A HREF="http://docsontheweb.blogspot.com/2006/12/hello-taxpayers.html" REL="nofollow">people like this guy</A> (courtesy of EMTALA). also, many young, otherwise healthy folks take a calculated gamble and go without insurance hoping they don't need it. i was uninsured from 21 to 26. <BR/><BR/>but back to it... to pay for the "free" ER care insurers raise prices, hospitals raise prices, and doctors raise rates. in the meantime there's always a lawyer or two waiting for me to screw up and when i do it matters not whether i was doing gratis work. <BR/><BR/>there is absolutely no way for supply and demand to work as the government has mandated that there be unlimited supply of excellent care.<BR/><BR/>amy, i do not think you are attacking doctors, but i believe you make a mistake if you think, as i think you do, that 'someone has to do something'. this usually means the government, and if you think a governmental solution is a good idea then that is where you and i part company. someone does have to do something... "each of us has to take responsibility for our health, and each of us has to say "no" to anything that takes us, as a society, away from personal responsibility in any form. so simple yet so hard, and a very hard sell to anyone used to being given stuff by the government.<BR/><BR/>EMTALA got us in this mess and, as usual, hard cases prove to make bad law. EMTALA may have served to prevent 'patient dumping', but at the cost of driving doctors off call, out of medicine, or into their own surgical centers where they can actually get paid for their time. i do not blame them. <BR/><BR/>to get back to my friend above with the end stage renal disease who uses 911 about once a week, if she had to pay ten dollars for every visit to the ER the economic incentive to actually get a primary physician would magically appear and even she would begin to understand that her ambulance rides and ER visits are not 'free'. she might even have to cut down on her cigarettes. right now she comes to the ER because she knows that it's cheaper than going to a 'regular doctor' (primary care physicians fall outside of EMTALA). she's wrong on many accounts, but also very wrong about her health... we are the exact wrong doctors to manage her chronic conditions. we are the right doctors to manage her stroke or heart attack (which are coming very soon by the way).<BR/><BR/>in short, the only thing i can think of that may have befallen you and your child is malpractice. i can certainly understand if your pediatrician missed something and if that is the case then again, i am terribly sorry. we all miss things and we hope and pray we won't miss something life-threatenting.<BR/><BR/>but i can not understand, apart from that, how our 'system' failed you. any kind of leukemia or other cancer is best treated here. any form of congenital disorder is best treated here. <BR/><BR/>i do not expect you to answer as it may be too painful for you and that's okay, all i'm saying that is the frontiers of medicine are still being pushed back in the west, and then, primarily in the united states.<BR/><BR/>it is precisely because of the development of individual medical centers with research institutions attached that we are the best. it is precisely because there was once money in medicine that we are still privileged to the results of it being spent in medicine. when the money flows without being chopped and cut by 18 different federal agencies then progress is made. yes, NIH grants and government funded studies are hugely important, but so are drug company funded studies and money from the private sector. hospitals die if they do not at least pay for their expenses. if they make money so much the better, there's more to spend at the margins. right now, there are no margins.<BR/><BR/>finally, doctors go through years of hellish training to save lives, yes! but also to have lives, and to practice the best they know how. take the money away and you will still have good physicians, but take the autonomy away and make us government employees and instead of excellence in our physicians you will have mediocrity. <BR/><BR/>in fact, when i want to stop working like a madman at all hours i will go and work for the VA. the pay will be a little less but the patients will wait on me and not vice versa (i mean no disrespect to VA physicians... i get my care there and it's pretty good, but anyone who has worked in the military medical corps outside of wartime or in the VA will tell you that it is rationed care(and maddening for patients).<BR/><BR/>amy, God bless you, and i hope to hear back from you.911DOChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466669111561150174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-26245888665893304042008-05-03T01:36:00.000-05:002008-05-03T01:36:00.000-05:00Amy, I'm so sorry about your child. Every mother...Amy,<BR/> I'm so sorry about your child. Every mother's very worst nightmare.Devorrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14542045173559671539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-21890188629878537202008-05-03T00:38:00.000-05:002008-05-03T00:38:00.000-05:00Amy, I'm so sorry for your loss. I've often felt I...Amy, I'm so sorry for your loss. I've often felt I would never recover from the loss of one of my children, and am awestruck at those who do find a way to move on.<BR/><BR/>Just a couple of observations (I'm a doctor who worked 9 yrs in a VA hospital--a big impetus toward this former registered Democrat becoming conservative!!--then, 6 years at one of the world's great cancer centers, M.D. Anderson in Houston):<BR/><BR/>Many people in this country get first-rate care--it does depend on where you live, and how much moxie you have in working "the system";<BR/><BR/>Many others, poor and well-off alike, don't get great care;<BR/><BR/>I know lots of healthcare pundits like to make a big thing of our lesser life expectancy here in the U.S., but from where I stand now, as primary care physician to some ultra-frail 80 and 90-somethings, I'm not sure that extra 1-3 years would be all that great!<BR/><BR/>And, finally, <BR/><BR/>Despite the billions spent on research at the NIH and elsewhere, we still don't know shit about why some 30-year-olds die of cancer, some children die of meningitis or any of another 100 diseases, and why some smokers live to 80.<BR/><BR/>Have a good night.janemariemdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04456131748909653894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-33172893103688428052008-05-02T23:07:00.000-05:002008-05-02T23:07:00.000-05:00Also, it is getting late, so I guess if you put me...Also, it is getting late, so I guess if you put me to the stocks tonight, I'll read about it in the morning. A latte in hand. ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-40201914223934076832008-05-02T22:55:00.000-05:002008-05-02T22:55:00.000-05:00Go ahead. Have fun.This might be the best place fo...Go ahead. Have fun.<BR/><BR/>This might be the best place for treatment, if you are independently wealthy or dirt poor. <BR/>The rest of us have to take a number and go through a lot of red tape when a serious illness happens. Don't take it personally, I am not attacking doctors, I am attacking a hugely messed up and unfair system.<BR/><BR/>I am going to open a little bit the curtain of my life: we lost our only child 2 years ago.<BR/>I will always wonder if he would still be alive, had we lived somewhere else, where top of the line healthcare is more easily accessible to all. Or maybe not. Curtain closed.<BR/><BR/>As for the feather dusters, they are not made uniquely of chicken feathers. Some are made also of duck, goose and ostrich feathers.<BR/>So why explain only to the chicken?<BR/><BR/>Let the bashing begin. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-49952394953496914762008-05-02T22:00:00.000-05:002008-05-02T22:00:00.000-05:00amy, please explain yourself so i can decide wheth...amy, <BR/><BR/>please explain yourself so i can decide whether to make fun of you or whether you just don't do sarcasm well. <BR/><BR/>in the meantime ponder this...<BR/><BR/>% of homes worldwide with feather-dusters = 43<BR/>% of united states homes with feather-dusters = 23<BR/><BR/>now, try explaing that to the chickens.911DOChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466669111561150174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-39432281406460392632008-05-02T20:49:00.000-05:002008-05-02T20:49:00.000-05:00Amy, "Since you don't want the anecdotal stories o...Amy, <BR/><BR/>"Since you don't want the anecdotal stories of my Canadian friends, I'll keep them to myself. "<BR/><BR/>I too have anecdotes from Canada, but I have them from the US also.<BR/>There are stories of mishaps and red tape everywhere and anecdotes are not what an entire system should be judged on.<BR/><BR/>"I am quite capable of comprehending what goes on in one of those health systems"<BR/><BR/>Do you really? <BR/><BR/>Life expectancy for 2007 according to the CIA World factbook:<BR/><BR/>#1 Andorra 83.52<BR/>#11 France 80.59 <BR/>#13 Canada 80.34<BR/>#45 USA 78 <BR/><BR/>The good ole USA, with its current free healthcare for the poor, the lazy and the illegal immigrants. Works like a charm, doesn't it? It'd be a shame to change anything to that fine tuned machine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-18913584499772563282008-05-02T14:50:00.000-05:002008-05-02T14:50:00.000-05:00When you give a right like healthcare to an indivi...When you give a right like healthcare to an individual, you are obligating another individual to provide that service. Liberties should be obtainable by all and an obligation of none. Thanks 911DOC, I enjoy reading your stuff!anhedoniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11041073157065321915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-71264834747783893082008-05-02T14:29:00.000-05:002008-05-02T14:29:00.000-05:00YES!free health care for sperms and eggs... infert...YES!<BR/>free health care for sperms and eggs... infertility workups and such. coming soon for free!911DOChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466669111561150174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-64183151877199757452008-05-02T08:00:00.000-05:002008-05-02T08:00:00.000-05:00"So this vendetta against universal healthcare, is..."So this vendetta against universal healthcare, is it powered by the insurance industry that fears its profits would melt?"<BR/><BR/>You're kidding right? You don't think doctors could see through the propaganda? Or you think they're in on it?<BR/><BR/>I think it's kind of convenient to disqualify anyone who "hasn't used" any of those systems. You have disallowed us the use of any stories of friends or family members. Are you counting on there being no one as widely traveled as yourself? <BR/><BR/>You can easily research journal articles and news reports on MRSA in these hosptials yourself. You can also find out for yourself how long people wait for surgeries and medical treatment, or how people hop down to the good old USA to use our MRI's. People die waiting for treatment in those countries. People are taxed a ton more in France. No thanks. <BR/><BR/>Saying that only people who have lived for a substantial time period in one of those countries is kind of stacking the deck right? Why do the libs keep telling me that I can't make up my own mind? Since you don't want the anecdotal stories of my Canadian friends, I'll keep them to myself. I am quite capable of comprehending what goes on in one of those health systems without having lived there.Amelia Ameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296224743117560163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24021163.post-70219731192007905802008-05-02T03:51:00.000-05:002008-05-02T03:51:00.000-05:00>>Talking about shooting, I am sure I am going to ...>><BR/>Talking about shooting, I am sure I am going to be shot down for stating this:<BR/><BR/>Physicians payment nonwithstanding,(yes, you should be be paid for services rendered. Absolutely.)I really do not see what the mass panic hysteria about "free" universal healthcare is.<BR/> Those who feel entitled to everything without having to work for it already get free healthcare and the rest of us, well, instead of paying high insurance premiums for ourselves AND taxes for the parasites, we would be paying higher taxes. Same cost to us, really.<BR/> <BR/> So this vendetta against universal healthcare, is it powered by the insurance industry that fears its profits would melt?<BR/><BR/>The French and the Canadians have universal healthcare, and I really do not see either country in dire economical recession nor do I see French and Canadian citizens dropping dead like flies.<BR/>Their universal healthcare is not totally free by the way.<BR/><BR/>This is not a political post, so please do not drag any of the candidates into this if you wish to respond.<BR/>This is just a candid observation from someone who has used all 3 systems.<BR/><BR/>I am open to rebuttal from anyone who also has used a healthcare system other than the US one.<BR/>And "When I was on vacation for a week in Vancouver/Cannes and I sprained my ankle" does not count.<BR/> Neither does the example of the cousin of of your hairdresser's neighbor.<BR/><BR/>Only someone who has lived everyday life for a while qualifies.<BR/> :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com